Below is a short segment of an extensive dialogue we conducted with Saniel, which appears in its entirety in our book "Dialogues With Emerging Spiritual Teachers."

Q.  No exclusion of the world to hold some kind of non-worldly samadhi?

A.  Right. And no treating of the world as if it did not really exist. That, it seems to me, tends to be the great violence of many of the transcendentalist traditions, for which all humanity and all life on Earth are now paying dearly. Such world-denial has been enshrined in what I call the "hypermasculine" era of human sensibility, which has had to dissociate the self, even violently, in order to be able to control nature, or to achieve what I regard to be an evolutionary cul-de-sac of liberation from embeddedness in the karmic play of phenomena. So many great masters and teachings propose that ultimate liberation is some kind of cessation of the appearance of phenomena. I disagree. I think such liberation, if achieved, is a kind of false summit. For the seemingly liberated individual, it may appear to be supreme liberation because it points nowhere beyond itself. But in the larger picture, it may prove to be a less than ultimate liberation. And because it seems so sufficient to the awakened Self, that subjective awakening may very well stagnate the current of our species' real-growth.

If your realization really is so all-fired immutable and free, then why not embrace the play of phenomena? What power can it possibly have to confine or fundamentally enslave you? In archetypal language, if you've realized that you are Shiva, don't kick Shakti out of your life-embrace her, love her, dare to dissolve in her and find out what she shows you next. In other words, if you've realized unconditioned Consciousness, don't abandon the living Spirit-Energy and all of its manifest, conditioned, changing phenomena. Dare the embrace, the union, and take that ride!

For more information on Saniel Bonder, go to: www.extraordinaryempowerments.com

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